Daf 65b
וְרַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן סָבַר מִיצּוּי חַטַּאת הָעוֹף לֹא מְעַכֵּב וּמְחַתֵּךְ בָּשָׂר בְּעָלְמָא הוּא
רָבָא אָמַר שְׁהִיָּיה בְּסִימָן שֵׁנִי בְּעוֹלַת הָעוֹף מְעַכֵּב אִיכָּא בֵּינַיְיהוּ תַּנָּא קַמָּא סָבַר שְׁהִיָּיה בְּסִימָן שֵׁנִי בְּעוֹלַת הָעוֹף לֹא מְעַכֵּב וְאַף עַל גַּב דִּשְׁהִיָּיה קָא עָבֵיד מַעֲשֵׂה עוֹלָה בְּחַטָּאת
וְרַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן סָבַר מְעַכֵּב וְכֵיוָן דִּשְׁהִיָּיה מְחַתֵּךְ בָּשָׂר בְּעָלְמָא הוּא
אַבָּיֵי אָמַר רוֹב בָּשָׂר מְעַכֵּב אִיכָּא בֵּינַיְיהוּ
וּבִפְלוּגְתָּא דְּרַבִּי זֵירָא וְרַבִּי שְׁמוּאֵל בַּר רַב יִצְחָק חַד אָמַר שְׁהִיָּיה בְּסִימָן שֵׁנִי בְּעוֹלַת הָעוֹף מְעַכֵּב אִיכָּא בֵּינַיְיהוּ וְחַד אָמַר רוֹב בָּשָׂר מְעַכֵּב אִיכָּא בֵּינַיְיהוּ
מִכְּלָל דְּבָעֵינַן דְּרוֹב בָּשָׂר בַּתְּחִילָּה אִין וְהָתַנְיָא כֵּיצַד מוֹלְקִין חַטַּאת הָעוֹף חוֹתֵךְ שִׁדְרָה וּמַפְרֶקֶת בְּלֹא רוֹב בָּשָׂר עַד שֶׁמַּגִּיעַ לַוֶּושֶׁט אוֹ לַקָּנֶה הִגִּיעַ לַוֶּושֶׁט אוֹ לַקָּנֶה חוֹתֵךְ סִימָן אֶחָד אוֹ רוּבּוֹ וְרוֹב בָּשָׂר עִמּוֹ וּבָעוֹלָה שְׁנַיִם אוֹ רוֹב שְׁנַיִם
אַמְרוּהָ קַמֵּיהּ דְּרַבִּי יִרְמְיָה אָמַר לָא שְׁמִיעַ לְהוּ הָא דְּאָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן אֶלְיָקִים מִשּׁוּם רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בֶּן פְּדָת מִשּׁוּם רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בֶּן שַׁמּוּעַ אוֹמֵר הָיָה רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן שָׁמַעְתִּי בְּחַטַּאת הָעוֹף שֶׁמַּבְדִּילִין וּמַאי לֹא יַבְדִּיל
מַאי בֵּינַיְיהוּ אָמַר רַב חִסְדָּא מִיצּוּי חַטַּאת הָעוֹף מְעַכֵּב אִיכָּא בֵּינַיְיהוּ תַּנָּא קַמָּא סָבַר מִיצּוּי חַטַּאת הָעוֹף מְעַכֵּב וְכֵיוָן דְּמִצּוּי דָּם קָעָבֵיד מַעֲשֵׂה עוֹלָה בְּחַטַּאת הָעוֹף
שִׁיסַּע וְלֹא הִבְדִּיל תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן וְשִׁסַּע אֵין שִׁיסַּע אֶלָּא בַּיָּד וְכֵן הוּא אוֹמֵר וַיְשַׁסְּעֵהוּ כְּשַׁסַּע הַגְּדִי
לֹא הֵסִיר אֶת הַמּוּרְאָה כּוּ' מַתְנִיתִין דְּלָא כְּרַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן דְּתַנְיָא אָמַר רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן שָׁמַעְתִּי שֶׁמַּבְדִּילִין בְּחַטַּאת הָעוֹף
HE RENT IT. BUT DID NOT SEVER IT. Our Rabbis taught: And he shall rend it: (1) rending is by hand only, and thus it says, and he rent him as one would have rent a kid. (2) IF HE DID NOT REMOVE THE CROP, etc. Our Mishnah does not agree with R. Eleazar b. R. Simeon. For it was taught. R. Eleazar son of R. Simeon said: I have heard that one severs the sin-offering of a bird. (3) Wherein do they differ? — Said R. Hisda: They disagree as to whether the draining [of the blood] of the bird sinoffering is indispensable. The first Tanna (4) holds that it is indispensable, and since then he must drain out the blood, when he [also] severs [it] he performs the rites of a burntoffering with the bird sin-offering. (5) Whereas R. Eleazar son of R. Simeon holds that the draining out of the bird sin-offering is not indispensable, (6) therefore he is merely cutting flesh. (7) Raba said: They differ about a delay at [the nipping of] the second organ in the case of a bird burnt-offering. The first Tanna holds that it does not invalidate [it], and though he does delay, he performs the rites of a burntoffering with a sin-offering; whereas R. Eleazar son of R. Simeon holds that it does invalidate [it], and since he delays, he is merely cutting flesh. (8) Abaye said: They differ as to whether [the cutting through of] the greater part of the flesh is indispensable. And they [Raba and Abaye] disagree in the same controversy as that of R. Zera and R. Samuel son of R. Isaac: One maintains that they [the first Tanna and R. Eleazar son of R. Simeon] disagree on whether delay at the second organ invalidates; and the other maintains that they disagree as to whether the [cutting of] the greater part of the flesh is indispensable. (9) Now, this proves that in the first place we require [the cutting of] the greater part of the flesh? (10) — Yes, and it was taught likewise: How is the melikah of a bird sin-offering performed? He cuts through the spinal column and the nape, without the greater part of the flesh, until he reaches the gullet or the windpipe. When he reaches the gullet or the windpipe he cuts one organ, or the greater part thereof, together with the greater part of the flesh; and in the case of a burnt-offering, two [organs] or the greater part thereof. (11) This was stated before R. Jeremiah. (12) Said he: Have they not heard what R. Simeon b. Eliakim said on the authority of R. Eleazar b. Pedath on the authority of R. Eleazar b. Shammu'a: R. Eleazar son of R. Simeon affirmed: I have heard that a bird sin-offering is severed, and what does he shall not divide it asunder (13) mean?
(1). ↑ Ibid., 17.
(2). ↑ Jud. XIV, 6. There, of course, it was done by hand.
(3). ↑ In the sense that if both organs of the throat are nipped, it is not unfit. Our Mishnah states that it is.
(4). ↑ The Tanna of our Mishnah.
(5). ↑ For now the rites do not differ in any way, and it is stated infra 66a that such is unfit. Though the blood of the sin-offering is sprinkled below and that of the burnt-offering is sprinkled above the red line, that is not regarded as a sufficient distinction (Tosaf.).
(6). ↑ Whereas it is in the case of a burnt-offering.
(7). ↑ When he nips the second organ. By refraining from draining out the blood after this he makes it clear that he is not performing the rites of a burntoffering.
(8). ↑ The shechitah of an animal consists of cutting through both organs of the throat, viz., the windpipe and the gullet; should a delay occur between these two organs, it is invalid, and the animal is nebelah (q.v. Glos.). The shechitah of a bird (of hullin) consists of cutting through one organ only (the second is optional), since that is sufficient to kill it. Now, a bird burnt-offering must have both organs pinched (which is the equivalent of cut) through, and this can be done without delay between the organs; but when one nips both organs of a bird sin-offering, delay is inevitable, owing to the particular manner in which the rite must be performed, as stated infra. The first Tanna holds that delay between the two organs in the case of a burnt-offering does not invalidate the sacrifice, because the nipping of the second organ is not really part of the shechitah at all. Hence when he nips both organs of a sin-offering, he performs the same rite as would be valid in the case of a burnt-offering, and therefore it (the sinoffering) is unfit. R. Eleazar b. R. Simeon holds that delay in the case of a burnt-offering does invalidate the sacrifice, and since delay is inevitable in the case of a sin-offering, it is obvious that he is not treating it like a burnt-offering.
(9). ↑ After the priest nips the first organ, he must also cut through the greater part of the flesh that surrounds it (v. infra), and this naturally makes a delay before the second organ inevitable. Abaye explains that all hold that a delay at the second organ of a burnt-offering invalidates the sacrifice, but they disagree as to whether the cutting through of the flesh in the case of a sin-offering is indispensable. The first Tanna holds that it is not indispensable, hence it is possible to nip both organs without a delay, and so it becomes like the rites of a burnt-offering and is therefore invalid. But R. Eleazar b. R. Simeon holds that this cutting through is indispensable; hence there must be a delay between the organs, and thereby it differs from a burnt-offering.
(10). ↑ Since they disagree on whether it is indispensable, it follows that it is certainly necessary.
(11). ↑ V. Hul. 21a. — By ‘cut’ is meant with his nail, not with a knife.
(12). ↑ Sc. the controversies of the Amoraim on the points of difference between the first Tanna and R. Eleazar b. R. Simeon.
(13). ↑ Lev. I, 17.
(1). ↑ Ibid., 17.
(2). ↑ Jud. XIV, 6. There, of course, it was done by hand.
(3). ↑ In the sense that if both organs of the throat are nipped, it is not unfit. Our Mishnah states that it is.
(4). ↑ The Tanna of our Mishnah.
(5). ↑ For now the rites do not differ in any way, and it is stated infra 66a that such is unfit. Though the blood of the sin-offering is sprinkled below and that of the burnt-offering is sprinkled above the red line, that is not regarded as a sufficient distinction (Tosaf.).
(6). ↑ Whereas it is in the case of a burnt-offering.
(7). ↑ When he nips the second organ. By refraining from draining out the blood after this he makes it clear that he is not performing the rites of a burntoffering.
(8). ↑ The shechitah of an animal consists of cutting through both organs of the throat, viz., the windpipe and the gullet; should a delay occur between these two organs, it is invalid, and the animal is nebelah (q.v. Glos.). The shechitah of a bird (of hullin) consists of cutting through one organ only (the second is optional), since that is sufficient to kill it. Now, a bird burnt-offering must have both organs pinched (which is the equivalent of cut) through, and this can be done without delay between the organs; but when one nips both organs of a bird sin-offering, delay is inevitable, owing to the particular manner in which the rite must be performed, as stated infra. The first Tanna holds that delay between the two organs in the case of a burnt-offering does not invalidate the sacrifice, because the nipping of the second organ is not really part of the shechitah at all. Hence when he nips both organs of a sin-offering, he performs the same rite as would be valid in the case of a burnt-offering, and therefore it (the sinoffering) is unfit. R. Eleazar b. R. Simeon holds that delay in the case of a burnt-offering does invalidate the sacrifice, and since delay is inevitable in the case of a sin-offering, it is obvious that he is not treating it like a burnt-offering.
(9). ↑ After the priest nips the first organ, he must also cut through the greater part of the flesh that surrounds it (v. infra), and this naturally makes a delay before the second organ inevitable. Abaye explains that all hold that a delay at the second organ of a burnt-offering invalidates the sacrifice, but they disagree as to whether the cutting through of the flesh in the case of a sin-offering is indispensable. The first Tanna holds that it is not indispensable, hence it is possible to nip both organs without a delay, and so it becomes like the rites of a burnt-offering and is therefore invalid. But R. Eleazar b. R. Simeon holds that this cutting through is indispensable; hence there must be a delay between the organs, and thereby it differs from a burnt-offering.
(10). ↑ Since they disagree on whether it is indispensable, it follows that it is certainly necessary.
(11). ↑ V. Hul. 21a. — By ‘cut’ is meant with his nail, not with a knife.
(12). ↑ Sc. the controversies of the Amoraim on the points of difference between the first Tanna and R. Eleazar b. R. Simeon.
(13). ↑ Lev. I, 17.
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